A WindowView Dialog
The following dialog with Dr. Peterson and Burt Rosenberg, a Messianic believer
who conducts Joy Training Seminars in front of all kinds of people ... maybe folks just like you, too! Give this thing a read and there are hyper-links to Burt at the end!
Read carefully because this really isn't like anything else at WindowView ... but of course that's because there just ain't no one like Burt. Just slip into this conversation and it'll grab you along the way. You'll be into it once you get the lingo and start feelin' the spirit of this thing!
This Article It's Real Good!
Then Use this Link to jump down this page to see a video of Burt expounding on the Lightfully Harmonious Real Deal in Scripture ... you'll be so joyous for watching!
Also, WOW, you can hear this interview ... as they say "Just Click Here!"
Burt: I'm being recorded? Oooh! This is exciting!
Todd: Yes, see the sound level right there on the computer screen ... we're going digital right here on the PowerBook ... cool stuff, but Burt we're only monaural ... I just can't figure out how to capture you in stereo! Not yet, but we'll work on that!
Burt: Go ahead, ask me anything. Anything at all.
Todd: Say Burt ... what have you been doing on your weekends? [I asked this because that's when Burt does most of his cross-country treks to present his Joy Seminars]
Burt: I don't know. But, ask me anything else ... anything ... What do you want to know? On any level ... spiritual, emotional, earthly, heavenly ... anything!
Todd: Well then .... how did you get started in this business of giving Joy Seminars?
Burt: I have no idea.
Todd: Hey Burt, I need a REAL HOOK here to get these people to read this dialog thing ... you gotta help me here!!!
Burt: Well okay, okay ...See, my existence is based on the truth that JOY is the serious business of Heaven. If the Lord is the light — and the light lives in our hearts — then we should be light-hearted! Right? So, I'm about being light-hearted. And light-heartedness is contagious, so I'm simply encouraging people to ''contage.''
Todd: Eeh, well you know the spell checker doesn't know that word!
Burt: No problem. In the Joy Spritzin' business, you get to make up your own words! Isn't that fantazmose spritzalogical?! Really! So, why should a meaning be restricted to a lexicon? Why not make up our own words that impart the meanings? Who told the lexicographers that they own all the words?!
Todd: Technically, the dictionary is always trying to catch up with modern language, and adds words all the time ...
Burt: Well, I'm trying to stay a step ahead of them.
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Todd: So, you are giving me a sense of where you're coming from ... but Burt, WHERE are you coming from ... what do our readers need to know!
Burt: I believe that God created us to frolic with Him! ...Which sounds like blasphemy to a lot of people, because they make God into this somber codger ... this grumpy old man who lives upstairs, who is waiting for us to mess up so He can throw a lightening bolt down upon us.
I was going to say throw a lightening bolt ''down on our tuchuses,'' but you can't be writing that on here, can ya?
Todd: But, I've reached the point in my life where I can freely admit to having — at times — really messed up. And according to what you just said, I should have a body that looks like Swiss cheese — full of holes from all those lightening bolts. But, it just doesn't happen that way does it?
Burt: Exactly right. It happens a way you know not of.
Todd: So there's hope for me?
Burt: Oh yes, you're the proof case!
Todd: Thanks, I needed to hear that!
But Burt, you are going out there across the USA, and you are presenting Joy Training Seminars.
Burt: Yes. I do present Joy Training Seminars, because Scripture is full of permission to be in joy! I don't know what you're in the Kingdom of God for, but I'm in it for the joy. In fact one of those denominational theologistical cannonological eccleziasticological statements is ''the purpose of life is to love God and enjoy Him forever" ... You ever heard that one?
Burt: ENJOY Him forever! We are supposed to enjoy God. So, I teach these Joy Training Seminars, because there's a lot of people who know the Scriptures, but they ain't got no joy!
But, those smart-guy theologians have figured out a loophole when believers don't have any joy ... They say ... "Well see, the joy is positional." That's theology-talk for ''Yeah, we're supposed to have some, but I don't think we're gonna get none today.''
I think that joy is to be in the here and now ... in this moment ... in the IS ... which is were God lives ... God lives in the IS ...
Todd: Yeah, but wasn't He also in the WAS, IS now, and in the GONNA BE, all at the same time?
Burt: ... ahh yes, at the same time, because it's ALL is! All of that is IS ...When WAS took place, it was IS. And GONNA BE will be IS when it gets here, you see ... So, it behooves us to get comfortable in the IS.
When someone goes to a therapist, they go through all kinds of past trauma, and the future, and over yonder. And this can make the present a mighty tiny window of opportunity. The truth is, the present is all there really is. The Presence in the present.
Todd: So, when we say He is omnipresent ...
Burt: Omni-PRESENT! (slapping hands together loudly) [Burt does stuff like that]
Todd: ...and there you go referring to a window and that's great! So once you expand that window entirely, it's really IS all the way across the entire view!
Burt: Yeah, it's IS. God lives in IS. He IS is, And in my Joy Seminars, I have this complete Partial List of ''Joy Killers.'' These are things we hang onto, often in the name of the Lord no less, these really keep us out of enJOYing our God-given life ... They're Kill-Joys!
Todd: Such as ...
Burt: One of them is ... The notion that "We are here, and God is somewhere else." We're on Earth, and He's in Heaven. And we are trying to flag Him down, and get Him to drop by and to drop a little dribblet of Joyness upon us ... but not for long, because we know God is busy, because He's got to go downtown to see some important people ... That way of seeing things is a Joy Killer. God's will is: on Earth as it is in Heaven.
The truth is ... okay, let's cut right to it ... I believe the Kingdom of God is a Divine Smuggling Conspiracy. It's a conspiracy to smuggle love and joy into this world.
And the way He does it is to get us to invite Him to smuggle Himself into us.
Then it's Him, but it looks just like us! It's us, but it's really Him. Him in us ...us in Him ...living, moving, and having our being together! He who is joined to God's Spirit is one spirit with Him.
Todd: I've got this sinking feeling that after putting all the content of WindowView up on the web, you have managed to effectively replace it all in about three sentences! ... But seriously, when you're about the business of Joy Training, you are focusing on smuggling love ...
Burt: Smuggling love! ... Many of the people in attendance are believers, but many of them are seekers, many of them believe nothin' — they don't even know if there is a God or not, because the world is too nasty and mean out there — so that's okay. I was one of those, myself. But the religious ones, with a religious background, they don't want "another gospel," but yet the experience they are living in isn't juicy ! It's dry, and they don't know what to do about it! Then we appoint ourselves to make sure no one else is having any more joy than we're having.
The Bible says another gospel is anathema, but the gospel we've got already is an Infinite Shpritz of Joy Juice ... Don't you see it! It says: ''In His presence is fullness of joy ....Joy cometh in the morning ....The fruits of the spirit are love, peace, and JOY ...On Earth as it is in Heaven."
So, duhh, there is supposed to be some joy in here someplace! You sing these songs, you know: [gleeful tone] ''I got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart.'' And then there's that real serious one: ''Joyful, joyful, we adore Thee ...'' ... You know that one? That one can throw you off, because usually when they sing it, it's very somber, very monotone ... So they think, oh okay, there's that Monotone-Somberness Joy. So, at least we're allowed to have some of THAT ...
But, this unbounded, swirling, twirling, life-dancing-with-God joy ... that sounds too disrespectful, sounds New Age-y, and the fact is the New Age thing has taken the parts of it and excised the atonement ... the exchanged life, the blood atonement of Messiah.
Todd: The getting forgiven for sins in all the places where you have fallen down, and the best part is getting up and moving on again ....
Burt: ...and being in union with Him! Not living FOR God, but living FROM God.
Todd: ... right along these lines .... WindowView is important because there is another way to look at things ... for those who just focus on the Bible, the rest of reality that we experience in our everyday life somehow doesn't apply any more ... so WindowView comes along to say that science can also give a additional vantage point on life, on reality, so ... go out and get some data, some information that in fact is evidence to show that science can be interwoven into the fabric of what's in the Bible.
Burt: Sure, the visible is an expression of the invisible and ineffable. The Bible says the letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life. The Bible exposes itself. It says if you just read this as words, as a rule book, you're going to miss the whole deal!
Todd: And too, science is revealing, if we discern carefully and are objective about what science reveals ... so the science apologetics at WindowView are just another doorway to approaching the reality we are talking about. Science apologetics ...
Burt: ...well I don't think they ought to apologize; I think they ought to be bold and be glad about it!
Todd: Here I'm bringing up doors and this is really a window view on life. Well, how about the fact that sometimes bad things happen to good people? And you probably have a few people in your audience who have experienced bad things in life.
Burt: ...every single one of them!
Todd: ....and you come in, and you're so happy, they probably are thinking: ''Where does this guy get off telling me there's joy all over the place!''
Burt: Well, I hope they don't want to play "can you top this" when it comes to trauma, because if you play that, you might win! That's one game you don't want to win.
Todd: But, is that a part of your seminars?
Burt: Yes, the Joy Seminars can be from part of a day, up to three days, say over a weekend. A lot of it is frolicsome and a yuck-o-rama, you see, but we do enter into facing dark things. Not pretending they're not there.
Todd: And this is part of smuggling love ...
Burt: Uh yeah, the best way is to BE joy, and then say that's what it was! It's not a "How-To Manual," per se. Because, what I'm teaching can't be taught, it can only be caught. You catch it see ... there's an ''Oh, I see!''
We're looking to go from Ha-Ha to Ah-Hah!
Todd: So, those are little revelations in life. Everyday we go through a series of events — one after another — with causes and effects; and every once in a while we get one of those Ah-Hahs! That recognition brings a value added to life.
Burt: It catches FIRE! It's a flame that catches fire, from inside-out. And it takes all of those words we've read as Scripture and makes it rise up. In us ... To create ... You see, He has created us to be co-creators with the Creator. How creative is THAT?!
Todd: Well ... perspective is everything to looking out the window. We've got to ask questions and think about this existence. I remember that Bill Cosby once asked the unfathomable question: ''Why is there air?'' It's a great question! Simple, but if you really think about it ... it gets you into really deep thoughts!
I remember, just recently, encouraging a friend to think about being ... think about BEING here! Existence! When we get wrapped up in the business of everyday life we forget to stop and think about the simple fact that WE are HERE!
I've even encouraged my friends to take a moment and find a quiet time, maybe when everyone else in the house has gone off to bed ... find a comfortable place to sit, to zero out the noise and get so comfortable — maybe in a really comfy sofa — as to not feel our body, to then focus on that still, small voice in us ...
Burt: Bingo! Without that inner home base, the joy runs out.
Todd: So, what I equate with that little voice is spirit ... not to negate our physical presence, but to allow the physical presence to be partitioned away momentarily from the spirit side ... and you really are working on the spirit side ...
Burt: Of course ... there is no joy apart from knowing "who you are" in the Lord ... and being an expresser of the Divine. That's the only real joy that there is. And you know, who we really are is revealed in the Scripture that says: ''He or she who is joined to God's Spirit is one spirit with Him.''
Now that sounds like unmitigated chutzpah ... that our spirit and God's Spirit are joined as one spirit? But, I didn't make that up; it's in the Bible. And so, we are one spirit with God when we surrender to Him. When we choose to be in the Divine Smuggling Conspiracy, He doesn't force us to be in it . Only if we really want to be!
Todd: Oh, choice! This is a big deal here!
Burt: Choice! CHOOSE this day whom you will serve ... I place before you death and life, joy and darkness, CHOOSE life!'' Choose life, so it's a choice. In my seminars, I speak of joy not as some outer happy thing that happens to you, nor just from some other person that has got the joy ... and you might mistakenly think: if you can just hang onto that person and squeeze the living warmth and moisture out of them you can have JOY! That's the marriage myth! This myth that so often leads to marriage, and then it leads directly to counseling! ...Without passing GO, but it does cost $200!
It behooves us — as you said a moment ago — to get quiet ... quiet before God, in God, and to quietly recognize that His Spirit, our spirit, are one spirit ... and we're not just living IN a body; we are living THROUGH a body!
Todd: Another image that comes to mind is that we are physically all "vessels." And here you are transcending the presence of our vessels.
Burt: The vessel is just so somebody will see us and know that we are there. If we didn't have a physical body, they'd think there were ghosts in the house or something!
Todd: I also thought our bodies were good for sports ... like for playing tennis ...
Burt: That's part of it! To live and move and have your being ... sports is part of the 'move' part! In Him we live, and move, and have our being. But we are not just defined by the perimeter of our skin bag. We are not just a skin bag here ... because we are living through a body. The "us" that is living through our body is our spirit, God's Spirit living through us, through our unique capacities. A lot of us, due to some trauma in our lives, there is a flesh tendency to make our body a fortress. In that case, we're in here trying to keep them out, to keep Him out!
Sometimes we've got to face those things that have caused us to become immobilized in the dance ... that inner dance that becomes expressed in the outer dance. So we go through a process of allowing God to work through those things ... not so we can have trauma-drama all the time ... You know, you can get addicted to talking about your trauma and make a drama out of it.
He has come to release us from our addiction to drama, so we can be in this moment, led only by love. Love can also be leaving people alone, did ya know that? That's a great way to love people; leave them alone. But sometimes He doesn't want you to leave them alone; He wants you to love them with some action! You're the designated hitter ... the Coach says, "you're in, in the game, get in there!''
Todd: And, what about the "choice" aspect here?
Burt: People need to see that it's real in a live person.
Todd: A demonstration ...
Burt: God makes us demonstration projects ... and He gives us a little Holy Chutzpah to drive it home.
Todd: Yeah, and wouldn't you say the Hebrews were God's original demonstration project for all the nations?
Burt: Absolutely. But, we got hit upside the head!
Todd: I suppose history has been a tortuous path ...
Burt: Us Jews, we got thrown out of every place ...
Todd: Actually WindowView presents a timeline based on a number of published sources that document that persecution of the Jewish people occurred time and again. The repetition of this begs the question ... why?
Burt: In Hebrew school, I heard about this ... we got thrown out of this place, and then that place, and later somewhere else. And the teacher asked us if there were any questions, and I piped up and said: ''What DID we DO?
Was it something we said?! How come we got thrown out of every place all the time?''
That put a little crimp in the God experience of a lot of Jews. And of course the Holocaust caused people to say: ''If we are the Chosen People, could you please choose somebody else for a while?!'' But see, we can stay hanging on trauma, or we can dare to enter this moment and allow us to surrender to His Spirit and have our spirit being one spirit with Him.
And our life now is an expression of that ineffable inner joyful reality. And when we find ourselves caught up in the externals, and we find our Joy-O-Meter is kind of low ... it's exactly like what you said ... we close our eyes, we dare to break the hypnosis to the external version of reality — Oh, the externals are there — but I say it's the partial masquerading as the whole. And invariably, this leads to leanness of soul. [The outer masquerading] It's not meant to satisfy ... it's functional and purposeful and it's where a certain amount of the drama takes place, but the real thing that's going on is written in our hearts and expressed out through us to other bodies & souls through our hearts.
When we get quiet and dare to break the hypnotism to all the other outer methods, means, modes and forms that seem so convincingly real ... and we close our eyes, getting quiet, and listen! Yeah, I believe in making our requests known to God, Scripture says so, but there's something about being still and being quiet in the "secret place" ...the secret place it speaks of in Psalm 91 ... and making our home that secret place ... to which we return, and from which we go out! In fact, you know where it says in the Hebrew Scriptures, ''He will bless our going out and our coming in.''
Burt: See, I used to think that meant when you go out of the house, go downtown, go to work, go where you go, and then come back ... He'll bless your going out and coming in. But I think what it really means is that once we know who we are in Him, and that our home is in the joy of the presence of the living God, then He blesses us as we return to that secret place ... and go out from that secret place, and interact with people — with a little Holy Chutzpah — We come in, we go out, we come back in ... It's like inspiration and expiration! It's God's respiration! The breath of the Spirit! It's so ...so ...Ahhhh-some! ...
Follow the links below to get a bunch more of Burt ... to read more about how the Expresser expresses, how to get in touch, to see how to have an adventure with Burt wherever he's going to be ... so you can be there, too!
Time spent looking ... through a window on life and choice ... brings the opportunity to see in a new light. The offer for you to Step Up To Life is presented on many of the web pages at WindowView. Without further explanation we offer you the steps here ... knowing that depending on what you have seen or may yet explore in the window ... these steps will be the most important of your life ...